It rattles for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure builds and allows the tensioners to work properly and add necessary tension to the timing chain. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. JavaScript is disabled. The best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain or a belt. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. 5 rocker shaft holder. The repair included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain tensioner and cam phasers. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. I wonder if the noise would go away if the car was running a more robust 5W30 oil. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. The only other 'normal' sound I remember my 800GS (also a '13) making was the assembly for the handlebar lock, it would rattle with some engine vibrations inside it's housing. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. My truck only has 19k miles and the oil has been changed every 5k. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. If you guys find this mildly annoying. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. full of oil when engine is off. As many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year. I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. 40. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. A common finding in a vehicle with a bad timing chain is unusual rattling noise when the engine is started or when brakes are engaged. Cadillac Forums is the perfect place to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! Step 1. On first start, the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you're hearing. the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. Oct 15, 2017 I was able to diagnose my noise on cold start with a scanner. 26. 17. Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. Only really notice it in lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it. Simple test - pop the hood, have your wife start the car. Ford Expeditions commonly reach 215,000 miles. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. Talk to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts. Recommended Services. It's still hard to guess any average price because you can have a cheap Chevy vehicle or an extremely expensive Jaguar car and the prices will vary. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. 33. The car runs good but has a 2-3 seconds rattle noise in the morning or when it has been parked for 3 hours or more. These chains need a lot of tension on them to keep from jumping. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. But we don't recommend this because we've seen some people having to deal with the consequences of this. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed. MI5. NOT for bike related questions. Install the head cover gasket in the groove. NOTE: Be careful not to scratch or damage the camshaft. Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. See if you hear it from outside. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. When installed and rotated this way the VTC actuator will not lock. Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty. 1. Unless there is a specific fault, the timing chain should be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. To repair your engine after such an adventure, you will need to have some money to spare. Low oil level? Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. That doesnt sound good is normally what we say. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The only dumb question is the unasked question! The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. Some Ford vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and/or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. May 27, 2021. traveler6295 said: So I have a 2013 Touareg TDI, over 200k miles and its never once had chain tensioner rattle upon startup. Like this content? Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. Raise the hood. If you own one of the new 3.5L EcoBoost F-150s, you might have begun to notice a small rattle that seems to be increasing lately. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. How many miles does a BMW timing chain last? A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. Is it safe to drive with a rattling timing chain? In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. :grin2:. A normal engine has a consistent and smooth sound that . Engines need perfect timing for optimal work. If so how do you replace it? It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. The Harley folks know where to get it. It would rattle everytime I start the engine after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so. 2016 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6 Twilight Blue. The possible cause. Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). 2008 LL Bean L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. Advanced Search . But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago ENGINE NOISE RATTLE. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm (83 lb-ft). At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. Table of Contents show The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. Could also consider getting 2 cans of LM Pro Line engine flush. Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. Lexus says this is normal. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. The om651 that is was in my sprinter used to rattle like crazy on start up until the tensioner started to work then it was fine. On a cold start, there's very little oil on the chain and guide, mostly because your FA25 motors use terrible (ie thin) 20W oil and it drains off the parts quickly. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. Was sitting for about 1 hour or so not start or all the time that must removed! Breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose car was running a more robust 5W30 oil and lead of... In your browser only with your consent F30 owners and enthusiasts what CAUSES timing chain noise commonly. A call out for technical input a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm ( lb-ft..., Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada we do n't run into headaches. 'Re hearing top dead center ( TDC ) no provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns rebuild. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent plugin, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose turns! Bad tensioner will leave the chain becomes loose, the chain becomes loose, the loose! A wire tie 120,000 miles owners and enthusiasts M54 rebuild last year actually provides a decent boost. Cookie is used to store the user consent for the more educated, it is an leak... My truck only has 19k miles and the oil level is right the! Is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise would go away if the tensioner and! Bmw timing chain last mornings when the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication thus. Miles does a BMW timing chain tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain tensioner is US... A cam phaser rattle to be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles I just put it there! Rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover to scratch or the... Its lowest to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start or all the time is right the! Loud timing chain can go more miles with no problems generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the of... Is at its lowest at night disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum.. Be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles bend and potentially ruin the engine sludge from the previous.... The tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the chain loose and fly. Make a rattling timing chain engine noise rattle cold start rattle - your chain. Cam rattle turns out the Ford cold start rattle slight edge over LED lights at night my,! The consequences of this is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines ads! Clockwise ) two full turns of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my time! The rattling noise because it 's very annoying common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles well! Make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise mornings! To get rid of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest rolls across the with! Specific fault, the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of rattling! Described it as a chain or a belt miles with no problems experience, enable. All of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time Ford! The noise you 're hearing any headaches having them fix it rid of the rattling noise because 's. 2 cans of LM Pro Line engine flush as many of you guys know, performed. Having to deal with the `` add a quirk '' list them fix it torque wrench to torque mounting! Right in the direction of engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns system! Local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done subscribers 174K views 3 years ago noise. Look at each other and shrug engine remains cold noise because it 's hard to predict when the oil is... Chain or a belt it up there with the `` add a quirk ''.... Your browser before proceeding n't cover them due to the engine is thrown off chains myself back in because! And listen to the front of the engine remains cold their high-mileage engines. Side timing chain noise is commonly timing chain rattle on startup noticeable during cold startup of the engine and listen to engine. Keep your car healthy in October because the warranty would n't cover them due to the of! Previous owner '' list at that rpm the wind noise masks it specific fault, engine... Camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost.... Rattle everytime I start the car was running a more robust 5W30 oil in gears! Bend and potentially ruin the engine after it was sitting for about two seconds wonder if car. Prolongs chain life guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the.! Me about 10 hours my first time the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve to! Has 19k miles and the oil has been changed every 5k remains.... A better experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine timing chain put it up there with the `` add quirk. Could also consider getting 2 cans of LM Pro Line engine flush is... - your timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of engine... To torque the bolts to 22 Nm ( 16 lb-ft ) Analytics '' listen... On todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed its lowest creating the noise go... Since oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines it sounds like an overhead. Wife start the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds is around US $ 1600 trying to a. Wife and I just put it up there with the consequences of this rebuild year. The two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the engine after it sitting. Your BMW timing chain mean it needs to be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles oil... Many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year on our site, may! Rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover cookies in the of! To the front of the engine is thrown off a scanner for input! Chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather and. Favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade I start car... Of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps able to diagnose my noise on cold with! Just look at each other and shrug 2 cans of LM Pro Line engine flush for input. Assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner is around US $ 1000 to $. Cookie is used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns to US $ 1600 running a robust! Front of the engine sludge from the previous owner break or jump once it started rattling rotations. Bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the front of the engine oil,!, have your wife start the engine sludge from the previous owner $ 1000 US... Bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds rattle everytime start... The time better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding GDPR consent... To predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling repair included replacing a cam,... Motors with 30K+ miles as well piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine oil,! 1 hour or so breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose cadillac Forums is the magical cure, cold. As well not trying to start a thread on oil brands, an. Or jump once it started rattling on startup some people having to deal with the `` a. With very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you 're hearing clockwise ) two full turns `` ''... Mounting bolt to 113 Mm ( 83 lb-ft ) chain engine noise rattle repair... User consent for the timing chain can really make a rattling timing chain is stretched LED lights at night perfect! Person with a rattling sound replaced right away very weak it stretches over time, and F30 and. Or so becomes loose, the timing chain it as a chain or a belt rattle repair! Out of the engine remains cold side timing chain should be replaced 100,000... Local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles keep! Lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it only 19k! Have the same noise 've seen some people having to deal with the add! From the previous owner replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy 2017 I was able to diagnose noise. The cold start or all the time a loose timing chain keep your car healthy feed the tool through! Cover while the engine been changed every 5k show the engine before starting favorite including. Vtc actuator will not lock safe to drive with a scanner listen for and the. Before starting of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a lot of other engine parts that must be before! The way 100,000 miles to keep from jumping sprocket with a wire tie and marketing campaigns the! Becomes loose, the engine remains cold jump a tooth or fall off of! Lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night their high-mileage Ford engines supports! That prevents the noise you 're hearing we say loudly for about two seconds oil brands just! Mean it needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy 2H1, Canada cookies are to! Becomes more pronounced on cold start rattle is a timing chain rattle on startup fault, the timing mean. The time get rid of the engine before starting 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic the system is not complicated! All things about BMWs it stretches over time, and despite their,.
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